This one of many guest posts here at Discovering Mandarin. This post/lesson is from my friend Megan (@megoizzy on twitter). I have actually been sat here talking to myself for ages after reading it. I implore you to do the same!

Mandarin Pronunciation Debacles

My first semester of learning Chinese was probably the most difficult one. Each week, my fellow wannabe Mando-philes and I were presented with a new series of 10 vocabulary terms, which our teacher went through painstakingly quickly every time. For the first month, I felt like I had missed a class somewhere. In true Chinese style, Zhu Laoshi never intimated the little pronunciation secrets that were my total bugaboos. It wasn’t the tones that were getting me, it was those pesky x’s and sh’s. I couldn’t understand why xian started with x but shen started with sh.

A background in linguistics and basic phonetics helped me to uncover the truth myself, and as the years finally took me to live in China, a local friend was able to help me unpack what was really going on between x and sh, q and ch.

First, there is a very important distinction to make.

x and q are always followed by high, frontal flat vowels like i and ue.

sh and ch are always followed by low, back rounded vowels like a, o and e.

This means that you can have:

xian or sheng but never shian
qiang or chang but never chiang

This might seem arbitrary. It did to me until I learned that there is actually a pronunciation difference between these - they are distinct sounds. And despite what most phrase books want you to believe (which is that x sounds like sh and q sounds like ch), the pronunciation difference between these sounds actually dictates why they are followed by different vowels.

Let’s play a game.

Open your mouth very slightly. Smile. Say the “sh” sound by blowing out the sides of your teeth rather than the front of your mouth. Keep your tongue lying flat. Don’t let it move! That’s the pinyin x. Now say xiàn with that same smile and blowing the air out the sides of your teeth. Keep smiling! You’ve got it.

So what’s the sh? Open your mouth again, this time wider. Purse your lips as if you’re about to plant a big smooch on your Aunt Mildred. Let your tongue curl up a little bit. Blow the air out the front of your lips and say the “sh” sound. That’s the pinyin sh. Now say shèng with those kissy lips still pursed. Keep ‘em puckered. You’ve got it.

This works the same way for q and ch. q is said with a smile, ch with a kiss. Try it now:

qiàn chèng

It’s fairly simple, but it takes a lot of practice to get it right. Don’t be afraid to feel silly. You’ve got to do things with your mouth that don’t feel natural and are not similar to how you use your mouth when speaking English. Don’t be afraid to really test this out. Shout at your wall! qian qian qian! cheng cheng cheng! Flat lips for qian, round lips for cheng.

Once you get your mouth retrained for Mandarin mode, this becomes much easier and feels much more innate. Until then, practice makes perfect!

This is another Guest post from a friend that continues to learn Mandarin. Today's guest post is from Boyd, who runs several successful and interesting blogs related to Chinese culture. Boyd runs an Business English course for Chinese speakers. Chinese speakers My favourite of Boyd's blogs is Boyd's Bijou or his Musings on China. Here is a little about Boyd's journey Learning Mandarin.

• Forcing myself to interact with Mandarin speakers daily.
  
  
• Moving to and spending time in Mandarin-speaking areas such as Taiwan and China.
  
  
• Working in local companies and immersing myself in Mandarin-speaking environments.
• Reading Chinese-language newspapers daily (with dictionary in hand) and attempting to write letters to the editor.
  
  
• More recently, reading Chinese-language blogs and using character recognition input devices (so I can practice writing) and pinyin input to comment.

I wanted to do a proper post about learning Hanyu Pinyin and the Chinese tones.

I found this video which is remarkably helpful distinguishing the intials, finals and tones. Though it looks like it was made for children, It hink it is useful for anyone learning the language.




I will write a post when I get my new laptop with tables of the intials, the finals and the tones. With tips on how they are pronounced and equivalents in English. Hopefully this will give a little more deatail to what this video shows with how the syllables can be put together.

I ordered Heisig's the 'Remembering the Simplified Hanzi' last week as you may know if you read my post about my excitement. Whilst learning with this method I am still going to be carrying on learning sentences from books and carrying on with Rosetta Stone (although I have been finding my progress in it rather slow recently.)

I won't be doing much preparation before I start this method of learning the Hanzi. Though, I did hunt out the list of all of the 1500 Hanzi characters published in his first book to see what I would be trying to overcome. (Thanks to John @ Chinese Quest for helping me find them. Also check out his great post about the Heisig method and its criticisms)

If you want to download the excel file with all the hanzi, hanyu pinyin, stroke numbers and lesson numbers for the first Heisig book (this is the ANKI file for simplified hanzi in excel essentially) I include the link here for you.

Heisig & Richardon say that these characters (shown below) are the most frequently used 1000 hanzi plus some additional Chinese characters that make sense to learn with the primitives learnt along the way.

(If you would like to download the sample chapter from their book Remembering Simplified Hanzi 1: and give this method a go yourself you can do so here. I have breifly looked over it, but havent commited to learning them yet. I will start when the book gets here.)

Below, I list the hanzi in order they are taught in Heisig & Richardson's 'Remembering Simplified Hanzi'. It really serves its purpose for me because I wanted to print them out and stick them up in my room. But also illustrates quite how many characters I aim to learn and how dizzy 1500 hanzi can make the uninitiated.

This is the next edition of what I now hope to become a regular part of my blog. Guest posts from Mandarin learning friends, explaining why they decided to learn Mandarin. How they have gone about the learning process and where they are now in their journey, learning Mandarin. Today's guest post is from Bill Glover founder of #MandarinMonday who has been a great help and inspiration to me in keeping Discovering Mandarin moving forwards.

In Chinese we call it… 猫头鹰 [māo tóu yīng] literally, cat headed eagle

In Chinese we call it… 电脑 [diàn nǎo] literally, electronic brain

In Chinese we call it… 手机 [shǒu jī] literally, hand device

In Chinese we call it… 黄油 [huáng yóu] literally, yellow oil

As I talked about in my blog post 'My First Three Months Of Learning Mandarin' I am going to start learning with the help of Heisig method so I can recognise characters more easily.

Today I bought Heisig's book, after reading though the first section that you can download the Simplified version's First Chapter for free and if it inspires you I recommend you buy the entire book.

Greg at Mandarin Segments has now learnt over 1000 characters in a month and a half using this method as described in his blog.

I recommend this book to you all, and hope to document some of my progress with this method soon. Below are the links for this book in both simplified and traditional Chinese characters.



Also on a side note: before I started learning Mandarin I bought this book: Reading and Writing Chinese: Guide to the Chinese Writing System But sadly it is traditional characters and not the simplified, so if someone can find a good home for it and cover postage, I would be willing to send it on. Please get in touch!!

Three Months of Learning Mandarin

I started writing this blog just after I decided to commit and start learning Mandarin. In the three months since, I feel like I have made good if a little slow progress. Before people jump up and tell me off for thinking that I have made slow progress. It is not that it is slow, so much as, I haven’t spent and dedicated enough time (that I told myself I would) revising the things I have learnt.

I have certainly thrown myself in at the deep end by starting this blog and forcing myself to keep up with the goals I set myself. Yet, I still find myself wanting to know more, a real craving and frustration that I can’t say anything I want to.

So What I Can Say After Three Months Learning Mandarin:

Basic Greetings,
Basic Colours,
Basic Numbers,
Days of the week,
Months,
Basic Foods,
Basic Drinks,
and some basic actions (eating / running / cooking etc)
Most recently some basic items of clothing, and basic household items.

I can say : thank you, I want, I like, I love etc.

And about 70 Daily Proverbs... Although I would certainly not claim that I remember them off the top of my head.

And this is my current problem, I am learning a lot, but the memory recall of it isn’t strong currently. Hopefully it will get better with time.

Discovering Mandarin:

I intended this blog to be a collection of the things I had learnt as a reference point for myself, and for other people who are learning too. It has turned out that through the daily updates and being busy that I haven’t had time to update with things I have learnt quite as often as I had hoped.

I started out writing this blog because I did not have anyone to practise my Mandarin with, and my housemates were both learning Japanese. Truth be told, they haven’t stuck at Japanese at all and my motivation has sunk a little. The people I have met through this blog are very inspiring and have made me continue with my dream and I want to thank you all for the little bits of help you give me daily.

Learning Mandarin - What Now?

The three months I have been learning Mandarin I have learnt more than I have ever learnt in French that I learnt for four years at school. This is largely due to the fact I wanted to learn Mandarin and never wanted to learn French.

I want to carry on learning and actually stick to my commitment of daily learning. I think I am also going to try out the much talked about Heisig method of learning characters. Although, many of the drawbacks are outlined well in Chris' Mandarin Student blog post. I think I would like the ability to know that I can understand a large amount of characters much like Greg’s experience of the theory in Mandarin Segments blog.

I intend to carry on using Rosetta stone for my basic vocabulary and helping to build it up bit by bit, alongside my other research. Also using Heisig as mentioned to increase my knowledge and recollection of Chinese characters I hope that my writing and reading ability will increase with my spoken Mandarin.

So here is to another three months of Mandarin learning, and to hopefully many years of learning Mandarin happily and as excitedly as these first three months.

This is another Guest Post just in time for #MandarinMonday It is written by my friend Greg over at Mandarin Segments and is his personal experiences of learning Mandarin. Greg has been learning for about 2 years, although has made amazing progress in the last two months. Here is Greg's learning process.

Disclosures

Before describing my journey in learning Chinese, I need to be open with you:

When I began learning Mandarin: I did not have any Chinese relatives (I still don't), I do not have a Chinese wife, and I do not work for a Chinese company. I don't live in China, and I was not planning to move there. I do not have any ancient secret documents written in Chinese that I need to translate, I am not practising t'ai chi, and I am not studying acupuncture.

Nope, there was no obvious reason for me to learn Chinese whatsoever. And yet, there I was, subscribing to the "Teach Yourself Mandarin" series on iTunes - and really excited.

Pressing The Button

Just 6 months earlier I had been in Taiwan on business, and I learned to read my first Chinese word: exit = 出口. (You can read the story here.) And so my entry was 'exit' - then Mandarin started to creep into my thoughts.

I also learned a dozen basic phases (Hello, How are you, I am fine, Two beers please, Just a little, Don't want, ...) Chinese people are so complimentary when they find out a Westerner is learning their language. You don't need much more than "ni hao" or "zai jian" - to get lots of bubbling outbursts like "Wow - your Chinese is amazing!" and "You are so clever!"

And for 6 months, with just a dozen tone-less phrases, it felt like I was fluent. Until I realised that I wasn't ... but that I really wanted to be.

So I pressed that magic 'subscribe' button in iTunes.

The Laziest Path

By that stage in my life I had no spare time, and absolutely no desire to study any more. A couple of degrees and a professional qualification lay in the past, and 10-12 hour work days and a half-dozen international business trips a year lay in the present. I knew that anything extra that I took on would quickly get discarded - I definitely needed a better plan.

So I did nothing. Well, almost nothing. On the way to & from work - totalling 20-30 minutes a day - I listened to my Mandarin podcast. Most of the time I was thinking about something else, but those beginner podcasts played over & over in the background. Until one morning, after a month, I woke up from a dream repeating "Huan ying nin lai Beijing" to myself. That phrase must have played in my ears a dozen times by then, and even though I'd never really concentrated on it, here I was, saying it in my sleep, knowing exactly what it meant.

So I took a significant step forwards - I actually started to listen to the podcasts, rather than just playing them. I also subscribed to ChinesePod, and my conversational Mandarin continued to develop.

But I stuck to my original promise - I was not going to study Chinese, and I was definitely not going to waste time learning to read Chinese! I would plug into my podcasts, but it would not be like school. I was not going to memorise lists of vocabulary, and this was not going to feel like a big effort. (And yet, I was enjoying myself so much at the time that - looking back now - it was a disproportionate amount of time that I was spending with my Chinese-English dictionary!)

Steroids

Then in May this year, I changed gears again after spending a month in Asia on business (China, HK, Taiwan and Singapore).

When I took off from Heathrow Airport I was pleased with how much Chinese I could speak. When I landed here again a month later, I was frustrated and determined to up my game. There was going to be more effort, more podcasts, memorising lists, using flashcards - and learning to read. Although I was at a conversational level, I realised in trying to speak with people that I simply didn't have a wide enough vocab. I could speak & be understood, but they used so many words when speaking to me, I just couldn't keep up.)

So in the last 4 months, I have been listening to more podcasts, memorising lists, using flashcards - and learning to read. It has been fantastic.

Sometimes I wish I had been this fired up 3 years ago - I'd have a much better command of Mandarin by now. And yet, somehow, that's OK. If I had pushed too hard at the beginning I might have scared myself off. But that feels irrelevant ... this is where I am now. I've learned over 1000 Chinese characters in my reading experiment, and I am progressing all the time in my spoken Mandarin.

Discovering Mandarin

One of the things I did at the start of my 4 months of passionate learning was to start my blog, Mandarin Segments. And through blogging I discovered a world of people who are also learning Chinese, who have also experienced the same challenges as I have - and who are willing to provide input, and to debate in a way that keeps my moving forwards. Blogs are a great resource, and an excellent sounding board. Make sure you subscribe to a few with a Mandarin focus.

But perhaps I am preaching to the converted - after all, you're reading this on a blog, Charlie's excellent Discovering Mandarin blog.

'Biang' is one of the largest Chinese characters still in circulation, with 57 strokes. It is used to desribe a popular type of Shaanxi noodles. Biáng biáng noodles, touted as one of the "ten strange wonders of Shaanxi", are described as being as thick as a belt.



The "Noodle King" chain in Beijing (梆梆麵北京連鎖店) serves biáng biáng noodles.

Here is a clearer picture of what must be one of the craziest characters in existence.




Because the Chinese character for "biáng" cannot be entered into computers, phonetic substitutes like 棒棒麵 (bàng bàng miàn) or 梆梆麵 (bāng bāng miàn) are often used

Thanks to this blog for bringing this character to my attention.

In English there are set ways that you can say things in pairs, that usually wouldn't necassarily come in twos. For example: two Jeans is wrong, yet a pair of Jeans is correct. Two glasses is wrong, but a pair of glasses is correct. Two shoes is ok, but a pair of shoes is better. The list could go on; headphones, shoelaces, scissors, shorts, gloves... etc.

In Mandarin I got very confused because the classifier for veichles is very similiar to the word for a pair. So when I learnt bicycle I had assumed I was hearing a pair of wheels or similiar because of our sometimes odd rules about pairs.

两
liǎng​
Pair / Two / Both



辆
liàng​
Classifier for veichles (辆自行车 liàng​ zì xíng chē)

I keep finding the odd phrase which when said makes me smile. It isn't that it is actually funny, nor that it sounds funny when in English, or that it is one of the funny things you will have seen written down.

It is just a nice sounding phrase that makes me smile, much like the previous post where I talked about my favourite sounding phrase, here is another one that similiarly is nice to my ears.

我是老师
wǒ shì lǎoshī

It means, I am a teacher. Funnily this week I got an email from someone telling me how much they had learnt through this site, and made me proud that I am making a difference to other people, (and not just helping myself motivate and learn Mandarin). So I guess in fact, wǒ shì lǎoshī. I am a teacher (of kinds). Though I still have a hell of a lot to learn myself, and thank everyone that has bee helping me along the journey so far.

-I am also not as good looking as the picture of a teacher that I found. :D

The way that phrase flows is what makes me smile. I think it must be the two third tones, followed by the homophone 'shi' that makes it so pleasant. To my ears, the third tone is still one of the best things about the language. Which is something I really struggled to get to terms with intially, but have grown to love it already. I will continue to post here my favourite phrases, and hopefully some of them will be better than this one.

There is only one real formal way to say hello in Mandarin Chinese, and whilst you can translate literal meanings from many English greetings the only one that is used is 你好 (nǐ hǎo). Below are some introductory sentences, greetings, how to introduce yourself and how to say bye. There is a lot to take in here, but I hope it useful. Please suggest ways to continue conversations below in the comments.

I am...
我是...
wǒ​ shì​...

How are you?
你好吗
nǐ hǎo ma?

How are you doing?
你怎么样?
Nǐ zěnme yàng?

How are you today?
你今天好吗？​
nǐ jīntiān hǎo ma?

Did u sleep well last night?
昨晚睡得睡的好吗?
zúo​ wǎn shùi de hǎo ma?

I am Good
我很好
wǒ hěn hǎo

And You?
你呢？
nǐ ne?

Good Thank You
好谢谢你.
hǎo xiè​xie​ nǐ.

Nice to meet you!
幸会
Xìng huì!

The weather is nice today, isn't it?
今天的天气真好,是不是?
jīn​tiān​ de tiān​qì​ zhēn​ hǎo​, shì​bù​shì​?

Saying Hello at Different Times of Day


Good Morning
早上好
zǎo​shang​hǎo​

or

早安
zǎo ān
(literally 'early peace')
- mainly used in Taiwan

Good Afternoon
下午好
xià​wǔ​hǎo​

or

午安
Wǔ ān
- mainly used in Taiwan

Good Night
晚上好
Wǎnshàng hǎo

or

晚安
Wǎn ān
- mainly used in Taiwan


Saying Goodbye in Mandarin


I have to go now.
我必须走了。
wǒ bì xū zǒu le.

Goodbye
再见
zài​jiàn​

Byebye
拜拜
Bàibài

See You Later
回头见 jiàn
huí​tóu​

or

待会儿见
dài huìr jiàn

I need to go to sleep
我需要睡觉
wǒ​ xū​yào​ shuì​jiào​

See you Tomorrow
明天见
míng​tiān​ jiàn

This is a guest post from my Dutch friend Guus. This is his experiences of learning Mandarin. Guus runs a Mandarin school in Singapore and has been learning Mandarin himself for about 3 and a half years. I wanted to add a new perspective to the blog, to give new learners like myself an idea of the stages of transition that you are likely to go through learning Mandarin. Guus also runs a blog about learning Mandarin with tips.

My journey of learning Mandarin

China View today reported that 44 Chinese Characters (many of which are in common use) are likely to be amended. This has caused widespread criticism from Chinese nationals who think the change is "瞎折腾" (blind torment: meaning similar to a ‘pain in the neck’) Whilst some complain that one billion people will have to learn Chinese characters anew.


However ministry officials and some experts said the revisions would only target 44 characters printed in the Song typeface on publications, in other words, the revised characters would only be used by computers and printing machines. These changes from the governments perspective is that it will unify the typeface and printing standards of Chinese characters, whilst not affecting the Chinese public too badly.

These 44 characters are to change from the Kai typeface to the Song typeface, most often in these cases a slight change of only one or two strokes are changed. "The characters printed in our textbooks adopt the Kai typeface, and we don't need any change. But students would be easily confused by the revised characters on other publications," said Wang Jiayu, a Chinese language teacher at a primary school in south China's Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region.


Among the 44 characters in question are:

琴 (qín) violin,
征 (zhēng) musical instrument,
魅 (mèi) demon/magic,
籴 (dí) buy grain,
褰 (qiān) to lift clothes,
巽 (xùn) part of the trigram,
瑟 (sè) Se (type of harp),
琵琶 Pipa (lute),
亲 qīn parent、
杀 (shā) kill、
条 (tiáo) ribbon 'item'、
茶 (chá) tea 、
新 (xīn) new、
杂 (zá) miscellaneous、
寨 (zhài) camp / village,
恿 (怂恿) (sǒngyǒng) instigate,
瞥 (piē) glimpse,
蓐 (rù) mattress,
溽 (rù), muggy,
缛 (rù), elaborate,
褥 (rù) mattress (again),
耨 (nòu) hoe 'weeding tool',
薅 (hāo) to weed,
唇 (chún) lip,
蜃 (shèn) mythical sea creature, and
毂 (gǔ) hub.

Another 55 characters are considered allogeneic (异体), and to be recovered or unified in some way, among them 淼 (miao, flood), 喆 (zhe, same meaning as 哲), and 堃 (kun, same meaning as 坤, female).

There is always conservatives and moaning regarding any change, especially with regard to unification where some people feel they are loosing identity through the changes. However this small amount of changes are unlikley to cause any real loss of identity and arent anywhere near as big as the simplification in 1965 to the Printed General-use Chinese Character Table. (the proposed changes are just 0.57% of all the characters in the ‘Printed General-use Chinese Character Table')

The changes being made to the Song typeface are a technological based upgrade as Song is a typeface thats origins are from when block printing flourished in China. Because the wood grain on printing blocks ran horizontally, it was fairly easy to carve horizontal lines with the grain. However, carving vertical or slanted patterns was difficult because those patterns intersect with the grain and break easily. This resulted in a typeface that has thin horizontal strokes and thick vertical strokes. To prevent wear and tear, the ending of horizontal strokes are also thickened. Song typeface is characterized by design with thick vertical strokes contrasted with thin horizontal strokes; triangular ornaments at the end of single horizontal strokes; and overall geometrical regularity. This typeface is similar to Western serif fonts such as Times New Roman in both appearance and function.

This is different to the Kai (Kaiti) typeface which is more even with the strokes looking more like the caligraphy that we are used to with both horizontal and vertical strokes being fairly consistant.

字型寫法比較 (Font Comparison)


Despite this criticism and controversy that surrounds this move by the governemnt to unify the print into an understandable and universally understood set of characters there seems to be a lot of confusion around it. Personally I think it is much ado about nothing, there seems to be very minor changes proposed and won't really affect people in the way that they think it might.

To me it seems that the 44 characters that are due to be 'changed' aren't really being changed so much as look slightly different in the different font. It is like us having a font where the a has a curl, and a font where the a doesnt have a curl. The differences seem to be in the majority where dots turn into strokes. For example on the bottom of 茶 (chá) the different fonts mean the symbol looking slightly different, but certainly not unrecognisable.


Maybe living in the West has adapted me to seeing lettering in different ways with the several standard fonts. Or it could be that my personal learning of Chinese has not yet given me the ability to write characters properly, nor learnt enough to see characters that are very similiar already.

What do you think about the propsed 44 character changes?

This is a quick post to help with your vocabulary when talking about things in time. This post relates to weeks, months and years. If you are wanting to talk about things in terms of Days please check my previous post.

This is rather embarressing, and I feel like I have ruined a beautiful language. Whilst on the subject of reviewing my progress thus far. This was my first attempt at Chinese characters. Try and make out what it says. It is a fairly basic sentence. I will put the answer in white font, underneath the photo below of my handywork so you can check it.








Higlight the next few lines to see if you were right or if my writing was legible:

Whilst going over my first couple of lessons again tonight, I revisited some of the first things I learnt, and laughed when I realised my favourite Mandarin Phrase to say (so far) is the following, fairly menial sentence. The reason for it being my favourite is that it just flows nicely and sounds wonderful. This is my (anticlimatic, but) favourite spoken phrase in Mandarin.

Today I wanted to quickly go over the days of the week in Mandarin Chinese. So, if you have been following this blog, you will already know the Chinese numbering system, and this is crucial in the logical system that the Chinese use for names of their days.





Weekdays

So here goes, the first day of the Chinese week: (Monday) is called 星期一 (xīng qī yī) which is literally "star period 1". (bearing in mind months and weeks are historically based on the moons movements) or "small amount of time 1".